Christian Apologetics Society

Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
- Matthew 22:29

Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it
Gen 1:3
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light
Matthew 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body."
Malachi 1:11
My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.
John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Luke 20:38
For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.
Rev 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
1 Cor 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
1 Timothy 3:15
but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Womenpriests Plan Womens' Ordination

Looks like the annual ordination of women as "priests" is on. Several sources state that this Sunday, May 27th, an ordination ceremony will take place in Toronto, Canada at a secret undisclosed church of unknown denomination. Anyone vaguely familiar with the Catholic Church at Rome knows that these women are not bishops and priests of the Roman Church as women are not valid matter for ordination.

I had an online discussion with a non-Catholic feminist professor of women studies once. She, like the womenpriests, made the old arguements regarding the church being sexist, archaic, unfair, but never once did she ever consider the sacramental nature of ordination. She seemed suprised and dumb founded when I explained the concept to her.

Every sacrament has valid physical matter associated with it.

Water is the only valid matter for conducting baptisms. No Christian church uses milk, beer, wine, or orange juice. Just because you don't have a pool of water doesn't mean that a vat of beer can be used for baptismal immersions. Beer is not valid matter. Scripture and the early Church fathers are quite clear on water being the only valid matter for baptism.

Unleavened bread and wine are the only valid matter for communion. While some Christian churches stray and use grape juice, grape juice is no more valid matter than using Moon Pies with Nehi Grape Soda chasers. Neither are milk and cookies valid matter for communion.

A man and a women are the only valid matter for marriage. Not two men nor two women. I'm all for two men, or two women, living together as brother and brother, or sister and sister, and caring for each other. God calls us all to love one another as he has loved us. But, same sex pairings are not valid matter for marriage.

Olive oil is the only valid matter for annointings. Not light motor oil or baby oil. Neither are shortening, lard or any other "oily" substance valid matter for annointing.

Thus we come to the sacrament of ordination. The scripture and early Church clearly indicate that only baptised males are valid matter. While this requirement eliminates women from ordination, it also eliminates two-thirds of all men, or more. Two billion men are automatically excluded due to lack of baptism. The pool of valid matter is thus limited to about 17% of the world's population. Add in a requirement to be Catholic, in the case of the Church at Rome, and the pool shrinks down to about 8% or less. Factor in discerning "the call", psychlogical and academic suitability, and the pool continues to shrink well below the 5% level.

Now I'm sure that if, like the Womenpriets, one is a member of the 83% to 97% of the world population that isn't valid or suitable for ordination, and that's something I aspired to, I too would feel discriminated against, that the rules were unfair, and more. However, no law or sense of injustice can convert invalid matter into valid matter for ordination.

So, our fine and devout women may lay hands on each other as much as they like, but their ordinations are no more valid than a baptism with milk or a communion with grape juice.

May God bless these women and grant them the grace to see the errors in their "ordinations."

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Blogger Unknown said...

Don't like it, dont necessarily agree with it. lol. Although.....I see your point, and actually, you have a good point. So I decided to look up Nun on Wikipedia, just to see what they had to say about the matter. I looked up nun, because nuns are a big part of the Catholic Church. If a woman wants to devote her life to serving God and only God, I dont see why being a nun is seen as subservient to being a priest. Its no easy task being a nun from the looks of it, and from what I understand, they can have major roles in teaching and so on, just as any priest would.
So I'm not understanding really what the real issue is here other than jealousy or pride? Women ARE equal in every way, I dont know of anyone who would suggest otherwise that was just a jerk in general. I dont see the church saying women aren't equal, just that they are not able to serve as Priests, because of the aforementioned requirements in your post. Yet isnt the position of nun an important, valued, and respectable role for a woman to perform within the church? Isnt there planty of opportunities within the Church for a woman to serve God and her congregation?
Instead of focusing on what they cannot do, or not allowed to do rather, why are they not focusing on improving what IS allowed? I dont understand, if all the effort was put into improving convents (and in Eastern Orthodox, there is no distinction between male or female, they are both called Monastics. or some such) If more effort was put into improving the Monastaries instead of railing against the establishment for not being allowed as priests, wouldnt there be some REALLY great Monastaries not only in the U.S., but worldwide?
Can you elaborate more on the roles women play in the church besides just joining Monastaries? Or what are some of their roles within the Monastaries are, I know that not all of them are cloistered, that many are quite public in their duties. can you explain more please in another post?

10:34 PM  
Blogger Rev. Jared C. Tucher said...

Timothy, I must agree with you. No ordination took place in Canada. In visiting your blog, I assume you are Catholic. I am a Lutheran, and therefore only hold to two Sacraments, Holy Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. Ordination is not a Sacrament according to the Lutheran Church. There was no ordination. Putting the best construction on it (8th Commandment), these women dressed up and decided to “play church.”

The Vatican is very much in the right by not acknowledging Roman Catholic Womenpriests, their “ordinations” nor the subsequent “ordinations” which have taken place since. Paul’s Epistles to Timothy and Titus clearly outline the qualifications and requirements of an elder in the Church, namely, to be the husband of but one wife. I would like to know how a women, any women, could be the husband of but one wife.

10:40 PM  
Blogger Faithful Catholic said...

I think there may be one thing that you forgot to mention in your comments. But first off, good for those women taking these matters into their own hands. I think that they are leading us into being the church we need to be.

But also, you wrote about valid matter. What you may have forgotten is that in the absence of water, basically any liquid can be used for baptizing. This would include olive oil and the common example most books use is "spit."

Using this type of emergency logic. I could say the Roman Church needs more priests, the bishops won't do it, so lay people need to (or women you have previously named bishops by other male bishops). And one could also say that just as a priest isn't needed to baptize in an emergency, when a priest is not around, being a man need not be a qualification for ordination to the priesthood.

Of course I believe that women who are called, should be priests anyway. There is ample evidence to show that certain church teachings, even regarding sacraments, have evolved over time.

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi there. If you wanteed to read my blog, that's fine. However, I don't appreciate finding a comment pushing your religious beliefs down my throat. Perhaps this religious fanatacism is one of the reasons I have given up hope on the Catholic church. Just to let you know, it has been deleted, as will any future comments from you.

1:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello, Timothy. Good post. Some people may be shocked by this, but women are not in the position of being a deacon, priest, or preacher. Doesn't matter if it seems unfair. We take our instruction from God and the Bible. God's ways are not our ways, so even if we think He is wrong, He is not. He is holy, and who are we to say women should be a priest?

However, women do have their roles. I, as a woman, take my instruction from Proverbs Noble Woman. It is everything I strive to be. I was created for a purpose. My purpose has nothing to do with being in a position of priest, preacher, or the like. Women can serve in other ways, and they (we) need to make sure we are where God wants us. I'm happy being a woman, and am happy with the roles God put me in.

We may not agree on everything. But I would venture to say, you are saved by grace, and I call you brother.

8:01 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Umm, you're slacking and I need a scripture fix, so chop chop and post some more good stuff.

9:09 PM  
Blogger bridget said...

Hi Timothy:
This is totally off-topic but I saw your comment on Slice and just wanted to touch base with you.
First, I'm surprised that they even posted your comment because they are famous for picking and choosing - and usually choosing only "yes men". Secondly, you will never win with them. You can have all the arguments that prove the truth of the Catholic church but you will never get through to them. Chris Pajak, Ken Silva, Jim Bublitz and company are fallen away Catholics of the worst kind. They are rank heretics and will only convert if a miracle happens.
I've been watching you for a while but will not even try to comment because I've been "thrown off" most of their blogs. "Old (Jim bublitz)won't even allow his site to come up on my computer, Ken Silva just irritates me ("As Pastor-teacher of a 5 member congregation and leader of an internet blog....." gag!) and Chris Pajak (Papal Bull) is incredibly rude and insulting.
Just wanted to touch base with you.
God bless you!

7:26 PM  

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